[rizal]

Assallamualaikum,
Baru ni saya jumpa kawan baru masa attend training Oracle..(jangan guna shutdown normal okay..<- best free advice I can give!) t dari Afrika Selatan.. orang lama dalam bidang IT (pernah interview dengan Mark Shuttleworth (creator of Ubuntu and first African astronaut) sebelum Mark jadi millionaire- failed sebab dia tak pandai buat Python!) memang expert UNIX pernah keja dengan Sun di Ireland, pernah keja kat Msia setahun dan sekarang menetap di Australia (he finally found a good place to settle down with his pregnant wife).
Kata dia maksimum dia boleh kerja dalam satu kompeni IT adalah 3 tahun.
1st year -- time to learn.. angguk2 geleng2 laa..
2nd year -- get to know the surrounding then become the expert.
3rd year -- You should already know your value to the company. Ask for $ or ..

Perlukah kita setia lama2 dengan satu kompeni ?
Bukan senang nak buat decision -- belum tentu dapat the same environment kan?
Tapi kalau tak berhijrah we won't learn..manalah tau kan.. nak improve we must have new challenge.. IT is moving very fast lambat2 nanti tertinggal..Macam2 lah alasan..

Kalau bujang saya memang agree.. saya pun tak pernah kerja exceed 3 years at one place.. Dah ber"family" ni hmm kena plan lain kot.. but still nothing stop me from attending interviews

[kevler]

hurmm..bagi saya ...kesetiaan itu penting gaks ..kalau dapat setia selama 5 thn tuh ..kira kuat laa gaks ..untuk company lain nak amik kiter keje ..

satu lagi ..kalau company tuh kasi benefit power2 ..ada subsidi leh beli barangan computer ke ..vacation ke ...training giler2 ker ...bonus 2-3 bulan nyer ..nak gak saya setia ngan company tuh ..10 tahun pun layan ...

tapi bagus gaks cara member bro Rizal tuh ..sebab dia dah masak ngan keje IT nih ..



p/s saya sendiri kena tambah ilmu lebih lagi ...tul tak Ihsan ?

This post has been edited by kevler: 31 January 2006 - 04:41 PM

[rizal]

Kenapa 5 tahun kevler?
3 dengan 5 lebih kurang jek tu.
3 years tu reasonable jugak.. we can see the pattern. Tiap kali appraisal how much increament or bonus boleh kita dapat (saya baru lepas appraisal but hmm saya baru sampai level 1) .. Suddenly boss rasa we are too expensive to mantain.. haha pk jgn tak pk

[zamri]

Suddenly boss rasa we are too expensive to mantain.. haha pk jgn tak pk

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

too expensive too maintain? ni yg tak best ni. kena cari company yg betul2 appreciate kerja2 seorang senior dalam bidang IT. anyway, aku kat tempat kerja aku ni dah 6 tahun. benefit + increment tak byk but I prefer stay kat Kuantan for the time being. In the future, who knows?

[rizal]

zamri,
This really happens.
Just imagine.. dalam bidang dimana skill anda mudah dicari ganti-- at one stage bila anda dah byk songeh.. asyik komplen mintak naik gaji.. nanti soon masa appraisal dia akan hint2 ekhem ekhem "Remember you're getting too expensive+you're getting old .." Masa tu berduyun fresh grads yang hantar resume willing to accept pays hmm say quarter of yours.. amacam?
Perkara ni kawan saya cerita jadi kat dia.. since he was 40 at that time. Memang outspoken .. selamba jek bos dia cakap..

[T2]

dah tiada istilah 'job security' lagi pada zaman sekarang nih...

[ron]

dah tiada istilah 'job security' lagi pada zaman sekarang nih...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Job security only in government je kot

[powerpuffgirl]

fresh grad nak masuk gov pun kene jd kontrak dulu...kalo tak perform or tak baik2 ngan boss(hehehhe)..anytime boss kasi itu termination letter...same jer...kalo terminate dr gov then nak masuk mane2 company..sure malu nak ckp time interview..Why they terminate u?

Tp lainlah dah ade pengalaman then masuk gov..leh terus dpt permenant...

Maybe saya akan bla kalo saya tak jd permenant....sbb maksimum kontrak 5 tahun...kalo rase2 takde harapan..bla lah awal sikit...kalo diorg tanye time interview..blehlah goreng ckp nak expose new technology ker ape ker...hehehhee

its depend on organisation itself..kalo organisation tu kecik..tunggulah sape2 pencen baru aade peluang nak naik..tu pun kene lah berebut...nak jd permenant pun kene tunggu turn seniority.....

No security at all....

[SpiderGlass]

Assalammualaikum.....

Sebenarnye aku takde experience tukar² kerja ni. Kiranye boleh dikategorikan sebagai loyal employee heheheh. Lepas abis SPM - 1993, aku kerja sebagai kerani operasi di salah satu retailing company yg ade kena mengena dengan Angkatan Tentera Malaysia. Disamping tuh aku study part time amik computer studies.

Lepas 4 tahun kerja, in 1997 aku pindah kerja ke company lain. Itupun sebab aku dah grad & kena carik kerja di line ICT (pasal company lama takde kekosongan di IT department). Daripada berkerja di Port Klang, on 2004 kena transfer ke HQ di KL, itupun kerana group ICT kena centralised.

Hari ini, 01st February 2006. Secara rasminya aku menjadi kakitangan iPerintis Sdn Bhd, itupun kerana group ICT kena outsource dan group aku adalah group yg pertama kena absorb ke iPerintis .

Sorry kalau tercerita sejarah kerja aku plak hehehe... pada pendapat aku, kalau environment kerja & benefit bagus, tak rugi kalau stay kat company tuh sampai pencen . Lebih² lagi umur aku dah nak masuk 30 tahun ni, nak compete dgn fresh graduate kat luar tuh rasanye susah skit kot hehehe.

Apa² pun ini adalah pendapat peribadi aku - yg education level tak tinggi mana pun, cuma harap pada experience keje aje. Walau camne pun, aku kena gak berusaha untuk tambah pengetahuan + qualification, kerana bagi aku kerjaya IT yg sebenarnye bermula bila kena transfer ke iPerintis.


tocey²....

[rizal]

Spiderglass,
Peh! Finally masuk juga iPerintis yek Spidey
Congrats.. actually macam saya cakap memang tak mudah nak buat decision tukar2 kerja.. banyak faktor kena consider bergantung kepada our own target jugak.. Kadang2 kompeni dah best , environment dah best tiba2 kompeni bungkus pulak.. macam saya best place to work still yang saya kerja first dulu.. tapi apa nak buat.. la ni dah tutup.
Life goes on.

Satu lagi dilemma sekarang dept IT selalu jadi mangsa outsourcing!
Biasa la kununnya IT dept ni makan big $$ susah nak plan for budget menurut kata upper management (please read Dilbert!) , so to save company the money cheaper to outsource it to different company in a long run? Even banks pun boleh dikendalikan oleh 3rd party .. aiyoo..

Outsourcing ni pun banyak impactnya.. companies took away entry level IT job pi oversea..pi India sebab murah then locally our fresh graduates takdo koje.. camna nak start from below sume keja entry level dah pi kena export oversea..

So yang ada adik2 tu nak belajar jangan la suruh ambik IT related punya studies..? Apa komen korang?

[SpiderGlass]

Heheheheh... at last bro. rizal . Setelah khabar² angin since 2 tahun yg lalu, akhirnye jadi kenyataan gak. Sebenarnye saya dah suspect bila group ICT kena centralised ke HQ.

Anyway.. sokong dengan pendapat rizal. Banyak big² company skrg nih lebih cenderung kepada IT outsourcing. Tak nak pening kepala nak buat planning la, budget la, maintenance la heheheh. Adik aku, aku suruh dia amik business admin masa nak further study lepas SPM hari tuh, adik ipar plak, amik Law


tocey²....

[mbek]

bab lompat kerja saya x ada pengalaman. job sekarang ni adalah 1st job lepas grade dulu. masuk tahun kelima saya kat company ni. ingat last year nak chiow, tp nak kawin lak.. x jadi... this year nak chiow, x jadi lg sebab wife nak besalin. hehehe... ada setup company sendiri.. rasanya kalau semuanya ok.. run business sendiri lepasni kut. heheeh amin.

So yang ada adik2 tu nak belajar jangan la suruh ambik IT related punya studies..? Apa komen korang?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

setuju gak, mcm bro khairul kita... ambik account(kalau x silap) but berjaya dlm bidang IT. my boss, ambik art sampai oversea, but now title dia 'Chief Technology Officer'.

[nixk]

1st year -- time to learn.. angguk2 geleng2 laa..
2nd year -- get to know the surrounding then become the expert.
3rd year -- You should already know your value to the company. Ask for $ or ..

Ingat nak follow this rules..Maknanya tahun kedua tak leh demand lagi lah yer?

[sharuzzaman]

saya rasa 2 tahun elok la untuk buat keputusan.. kalau rasa dalam 2 tahun dahulu tak der peningkatan, gaji tak naik, bonus tak der, cuti-cuti malaysia tak der... elok la angkat kaki...

saya fikir simple jer... inflasi negara adalah dalam 3% setahun, kalau gaji tak naik 3% setahun, nanti kebuluran...

terutama kalau dok kat KL, sebab inflasi tu banyak kesan kat KL

[obelicks]

malaysia technical path kita takda tak macam us or europe..
diaorang leh keje sampai tua pun.. sebab ada technical path or lead..
kita kena naik jadi manager masuk management etc...

[kuda]

Baru je dapat masuk line technical setelah sekian lama duk kt dlm line education.6th februari ni first day.kuikuikui.aku vote 2 years.

[rizal]

2 years hmm too short to be the expert in your work,

Nanti pi interview kena tanya kenapa skejap sangat dok sana ..

Anyway saya kerja IBM 2 years equivalent to many years tempat lain in term of experience sebab too many customers to serve + too many things I learnt.
Baru ni jumpa kawan yang quit IBM after 6 years kata memang teruk kerja IBM she left to get a better "life" walaupun gaji kurang sket katanya

But nixk jangan jadikan 3 years ni your rule of thumb.. maybe kena study dulu fikir masak2 before job hopping. Buat sembahyang istiharah dulu

[lelaki@melayu.terakhir]

1st company dulu..ngam² 3 tahun..cabut slaluh. Tp sebab pindah bukan 100% atas alasan cari pengalaman baru, sbb tertekan.

Now, dkt 2nd company....bulan 5 ni cukup pulak 3 tahun. Kalau pikir dr segi environment dan beban tugas, mmg tak nak pindah. Lagi² baru 3 bulan dpt status permanent. Ada increment yg tak seberapa and bonus. Tapi sampai bila kita nak selesa?

Walaupun tak buat technical tp masih dlm IT environment. Maybe 3 years antara waktu terbaik . Kali ni reason pindah bukan lagi tertekan..tetapi utk cari new experience..new challenge...and definitely new boss.

Antara sebab aku takkan berpindah lagi ialah - when the time ur really at the top.

[fakhrul77]

I've been working for 6 yrs in a Bank. The working environment & employee benefit contribute a lot to my staying. However I do look around for better offer

[kkmka90]

Dasat semua orang. Bertahun pengalaman.

Aku kerja ngan orang 10 bulan je maintain Human Resource Management System. Bulan ke-8 dah start gaji lambat, really demoralizing. Kalau gaji byk takde la masalah sgt, ni gaji alahai, sedih nak saving pun sukar. Bulan ke-10 berenti, masa tu memang takde kerja, tak tau nak buat apa.. melangut kat CC main MMO.

Ditakdirkan jumpa member sekolah yang ada company sendiri, dia ajak la join. Sampai skrg dok stay. Flexible time, involved directly/indirectly in every aspect of the company decision, etc. Walaupun takde gaji tetap (project basis), tapi alhamdulillah tak putus lagi rezeki.

Uish, 2 tahun jadi expert?

Researchers (Hayes, Bloom) have shown it takes about ten years to develop expertise in any of a wide variety of areas, including chess playing, music composition, painting, piano playing, swimming, tennis, and research in neuropsychology and topology. There appear to be no real shortcuts: even Mozart, who was a musical prodigy at age 4, took 13 more years before he began to produce world-class music. In another genre, the Beatles seemed to burst onto the scene with a string of #1 hits and an appearance on the Ed Sullivan show in 1964. But they had been playing small clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg since 1957, and while they had mass appeal early on, their first great critical success, Sgt. Peppers, was released in 1967. Samuel Johnson thought it took longer than ten years: "Excellence in any department can be attained only by the labor of a lifetime; it is not to be purchased at a lesser price." And Chaucer complained "the lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."

Teach Yourself Programming in 10 Years

Aku rasa tak rugi amik IT. Sebab boleh implement kat bidang lain. Leh guna IT untuk pertanian, ternakan dsbnya. Leh kumpul maklumat pastu leh jadi decision support untuk benda benda ni.

[izafarid]

5 tahun kerja,
4 kompeni,
bos masih yang sama...
nak kira 4 kompeni ker nak kira 1 kompeni?

[azri]

Saya bukak kembali thread lama...

Saya dah 5 tahun+ in the company. Skills dah advanced la jugak... satu dua tahun lepas ingat nak berubah angin tapi seems like I'm heading the right way - I aimed to be promoted in 2006. 2006 came - didn't get the promotion, alasan muda lagi. Demoralized tahap gaban... tapi dengan kawan-kawan I got through 2006 and among top performer. Tahun ni tiap2 bulan tanya bila nak promotion... so sekarang dalam proses promotion. Sekali kena review (delay tah bila) la plak sebab tengah cost cutting measure... darn... sekarang lagi la demoralized.

For the past 9 month or so... dok usha kalau ada job kat tempat lain. Hmmm maybe it's time to move.

Yang best tu we pay so much for competitor employee to join us, tapi layan lebih kurang ngan staff sendiri. Demoralizing.

Sebenarnya sayang gak kat company ni. The work environment, support from my manager, most importantly satisfaction from technical perspective, etc... however as time goes on I just can't help to think that there's no company loyalty these days and bottom line my loyalty don't pay my bills.

Maybe betul jugak getting expensive for the company to maintain.

Baru ni ada headhunter cari, tapi agak nya dia rasa mahal kot .

[kureng]

Yang best tu we pay so much for competitor employee to join us, tapi layan lebih kurang ngan staff sendiri. Demoralizing.

kes camni pon ada ek

soalan berapa tahun tu kalau dah kampeni sendiri, selagi syarikat tu bernyawa la kan..apa-apa pun saya rasa 6-7 kalau diberi peluang/ tengok dulu sampai 4-5 tahun pun OK juga..

This post has been edited by kureng: 31 May 2007 - 08:44 PM

[mnajem]

Sebenarnya sayang gak kat company ni. The work environment, support from my manager, most importantly satisfaction from technical perspective, etc... however as time goes on I just can't help to think that there's no company loyalty these days and bottom line my loyalty don't pay my bills.
.

it reminds me to the words of that ex-Mesiniaga guy, if you want loyalty,find a dog instead.

[ranjau]

it reminds me to the words of that ex-Mesiniaga guy, if you want loyalty,find a dog instead.

<A name=OLE_LINK1>WHY WE SHOULD GO HOME ON TIME...


Mr. Narayana Murthy is undoubtedly one of the most famous persons from Karnataka. He is known not just for building the biggest IT Empire in India but also for his simplicity. Almost every important dignitary visits InfoSys campus. He delivered an interesting speech during an employee session with another IT company in India. He is incidentally, one of the top 50 influential people of Asia according to an Asiaweek publication and also the new IT Advisor to the Thailand Prime Minister.

Extract of Mr. Narayana Murthy's Speech during Mentor Session:

I know people who work 12 hours a day, six days a week, or more. Some people do so because of a work emergency where the long hours are only temporary. Other people I know have put in these hours for years. I do not know if they are working all these hours, but I do know they are in the office this long. Others put in long office hours because they are addicted to the workplace.

Whatever the reason for putting in overtime, working long hours over the long term is harmful to the person and to the organization. There are things managers can do to change this for everyone's benefit. Being in the office long hours, over long periods of time, makes way for potential errors.

My colleagues who are in the office long hours frequently make mistakes caused by fatigue. Correcting these mistakes requires their time as well as the time and energy of others. I have seen people work Tuesday through Friday to correct mistakes made after 5 PM on Monday.

Another problem is that people who are in the office long hours are not pleasant company. They often complain about other people (who are not working as hard); they are irritable, or cranky, or even angry. Other people avoid them. Such behaviour poses problems, where work goes much better when people work together instead of avoiding one another.

As Managers, there are things we can do to help people leave the office. First and foremost is to set the example and go home ourselves. I work with a manager who chides people for working long hours. His words quickly lose their meaning when he sends these chiding group e-mails with a time-stamp of 2 AM, Sunday.

Second is to encourage people to put some balance in their lives. For instance, here is a guideline I find helpful:
1) Wake up, eat a good breakfast, and go to work.
2) Work hard and smart for eight or nine hours.
3) Go home.
4) Read the books/comics, watch a funny movie, dig in the dirt, play with your kids, etc.
5) Eat well and sleep well.

This is called recreating. Doing steps 1, 3, 4, and 5 enable step 2. Working regular hours and recreating daily are simple concepts. They are hard for some of us because that requires 'personal change'. They are possible since we all have the power to choose to do them.

In considering the issue of overtime, I am reminded of my oldest son. When he was a toddler, if people were visiting the apartment, he would not fall asleep no matter how long the visit was, and no matter what time of day it was. He would fight off sleep until the visitors left. It was as if he was afraid that he would miss some thing. Once our visitors' left, he would go to sleep. By this time, however, he was over tired and would scream through half the night with nightmares. He, my wife, and I, all paid the price for his fear of missing out.

Perhaps some people put in such long hours because they do not want to miss anything when they leave the office. The trouble with this is that events ill never stop happening. That is life! Things happen 24 hours a day. Allowing for little rest is not ultimately practical. So, take a nap. Things will happen while you are asleep, but you will have the energy to catch up when you wake. Hence,

"LOVE YOUR JOB, BUT NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH YOUR COMPANY BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN THE COMPANY STOPS LOVING YOU"

[nixk]

"LOVE YOUR JOB, BUT NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH YOUR COMPANY BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN THE COMPANY STOPS LOVING YOU"

aku tertarik dgn kata2 diatas..best..

[Jagermeist_]

Minimum 3 years,maximum 5 years.
Masuk2 company,set your mind to learning mode...observe and absorb. Get familliar with not only the your job,but the environment. You adopt their culture and speak thier lingo. Basically,you blend in and become one of the boys.

By the 4th year, you will be experience enough and will be leading position,masa first 3 years tuh... mcm Young Pedawan. You would have 'localized' or 'customized' methods of delivering your task - My way. Management will accept it,pasal ko 'dah lama'.

Kalau rasa nak duduk situ lagi,or climb up,just stay. If you wish to seek increase your learning curve, then move.

[rizal]

azri,
Sounds familiar
Everytime appraisal on paper either your meet the target or sometimes exceeded tapi unfortunately on the other paper --> payslip does not reflect so .
Nak leave the company, rasa tak best la pulak sebab you love the environment , the people (though not everyone of them!) the culture + nak demand with some other company perhaps they will say hmm you're too expensive , we can't afford you. Other option .. hmm maybe go to Sales or Project but rasanya tak puas enjoy your technical work.

Been there , done that -- I would say maybe another option .. seek somewhere in deep your intranet search for internal transfer to another IBM la .. other countries.
Like what I did Umur masih muda so bila lagi nak merantau ??!

p/s office SBM (Saudi Business Machine) just selang beberapa tingkat from mine

[jEmBaLanG]

bagi aku lak, niat yg kita pasang tu adalah key kepada 'kerjaya' kita.

duit tu penting, securing a job pun penting. tapi kalau kerja nak dptkan gaji yg tinggi takde guna jugak kalau pengalaman tak bertambah.

bagi aku, pasang niat nak tambah ilmu tu yg penting. InsyaAllah, bila niat dah lurus, yg lain2 tu akan dtg sendiri.
Dah byk company2 yg aku kerja. Company omputih, melayu dan omputih balik. Sayang, sume company melayu yg aku kerja dulu.. LINGKUP. Kenapa? biasala.. korang pun salu dgr "MELAYU MUDAH LUPA"..

Tapi tu cite lama.. tak apa lah.. pengalaman bekerja dgn company melayu yg mudah lupa...

Dari pengalaman yg aku dapat bekerja dgn lain2 company ni, kena tgk arah tujuan mereka. Bagus ke tak, apa future dorang, apa dorang nak buat within 6 months, 1 year, 2 years etc. Kalau nampak menarik, then tgk pula investment dorang dlm mendapatkan developers. Kalau ramai developers yg masuk, maka bermakna company tu stable. Kalau sekadar amik sorang setahun, maka ada kemungkinan something is not right. Ye la kan. kalau satu company employ just 1 developer, dan prj lak kena handle dlm 2-3 mana nak larat.... last2 pressure, pastu pindah kerja.. then the same thing goes on.

Bekerja utk company yg stabil byk faedah. Kita boleh belajar byk technology2 baru. Framework yang dorang buat utk sesuatu applikasi amat menarik dan kadang2 tu kita sendiri tak terpk yg boleh buat cara tu. Paling aku banyak blajar adalah dari company skang ni. Mmg aku kagum object hierarchical model yang dorang bangunkan sampai ke tahap boleh digunakan dlm kebanyakkan keadaan dan applikasi.

Pernahkah dikalangan kalian membangun atau menggunakan desktop application yang mana applikasi tu mencecah sampai 1.5GB? kat tpt aku ni ada. System yg dibangunkan amat canggih. Sampai aku sendiri tak tau kat mana nak start tgk sbb terlalu byk components yg dibangunkan.
The challenge with our app now is how to make it faster (eventhough mmg dah laju) and how to lower the resources used. Bagi menyahut cabaran ni, sebuah R&D team telah ditubuhkan utk tujuan ini dan byk progress telah dibuat. Antara yg terawal ialah evaluate software seperti DevExpress, Obfuscation, Profiling tools dan mcm2 lagi. Bila dah evaluate, dorang beli software tu. Maka bermulalah Application Profiling and Obfuscation secara menyeluruh. Lepas hampir 3-4 bulan buat profiling, applikasi yg dibangunkan tu telah berjaya diturunkan resources yg digunakan kepada 1GB. Walaupun tak byk, tapi ia adalah satu yg amat sukar utk dilaksanakan...

Dari cite (bukan cite dongeng ye) dia atas, dan pengalaman aku yg tak semana bekerja takat ni, aku dpt belajar byk bende. Not just development, malah, profiling tools, obfuscation dan mcm2 lagi. All these are value added to you.

Ni aku kena maintain ERP system yg company aku pakai throughout the branches in the world. It is called Epicor, kira rival kepada SAP. Yg ni paling pening penah aku touch. Tp seronok, kerana hasil enhancement, yg kita buat mendapat pujian dari seluruh branches dan digunakan oleh mereka. Bermakna juga skill kita diperlukan dlm company tu. Oleh yg demikian, semangat utk bekerja bertambah...

Well thats my part of the story...

[pinggan]

5 tahun bagi aku memadai... saya berminat membina perniagaan sendiri... customer dah ada tapi tak tau sejauhmana kita mampu melaksanakannya, ini semua perlukan wang, commitment, jatidiri, attitude dan risiko.

sekarang saya dah 5 tahun bekerja dengan syarikat sekarang... kekadang fikir jugak sampaibila kita layan customer baik untuk org lain siang malam layan call sampai hal-hal peribadi pun nak kene layan. tapi hanya dengar, angguk-angguk, geleng-geleng semuanya kerana customer dan syarikat dan paling penting ialah ibadah, dapat pahala tolong orang.

perkara yang membataskan saya untuk meninggalkan syarikat ialah wang, saya perlukan sekurang-kurangnya 100k tengah kumpul dan cari, satulagi ialah suasana kerja, rasa peluang membuat benda-benda baru di syarikat ini sentiasa ada.

kalau rasa tak puas hati dengan syarikat, fikir-fikir manada syarikat yang sempurna semuanya, bersyukur dengan apa yang ada. ramai orang lebih susah dari kita. satu lagi aku tak fikirkan sangat jawatan, tapi tang gaji aku berkira jugak. kalau aku keje sebagai juru teknik sampai tua tapi aku sronok dengan kerja itu, itu dah cukup. yang penting aku suka dan bahgia. ada ramai kengkawan aku ajak join syarikat diorang dengan gaji dan pangkat yang baik, tapi aku fikir, adakah aku suka dengan kerja itu dan paling penting life aku, walaupun skang life aku di kompeni ni tak teruk sangat. aku rasa sederhana aja.

impian aku ialah dok goyang kaki, duit masyuk dan buat kerja yang kita suka... rasanya tak dapat kalau aku masih di seperti sekarang...

perkara yang membuatkan aku susah hati untuk bina syarikat sendiri ialah rasuah dan kroni penyakit yang dah jadi macam budaya... benda besar yang menghalang niat aku...

This post has been edited by pinggan: 02 June 2007 - 09:41 AM

[RajaUtara]

1st year -- time to learn.. angguk2 geleng2 laa..
2nd year -- get to know the surrounding then become the expert.
3rd year -- You should already know your value to the company. Ask for $ or ..

Humm.. kalu keje kat syarikat Jepun, rasanya tak boleh nak apply teori nie.
Utk syarikat Jepun,
1-2 year --- time to learn
3-4 year --- become the expert
5-10 year --- You should already know your value to the company. Ask for $ or ..

Memang lambat nak naik kalu syarikat Jepun. Pasal tu saya tak heran kalau org kita tak sanggup keje syarikat jepun. Lebih baik keje dgn syarikat US(contohnye).

[mnajem]

budaya keje jepun dengan US berbeza dari segi mana?

[RajaUtara]

budaya keje jepun dengan US berbeza dari segi mana?

Ada senior saya yg pernah keje dgn syarikat jepun & us. Kedua2 syarikat nie kat malaysia la. Memula dia keje kat syarikat jepun nie. Keje dah 3 tahun, masih takat tu jugak. Katanya, yg sama batch dgn dia keje kat syarikat US, keje 3 tahun dah naik pangkat( dan naik gaji ). Dan dia kata, takleh nak "masuk" dgn cara keje jepun. So, dia pun pindah ke syarikat US pulak. Dan memang "senang" nak bekerja dgn US berbanding dgn Jepun.

Saya pernah borak2 dgn salah seorang general manager kat syarikat saya keje skarang nie. Katanya, sebaik2nya minimum keje 5 tahun dan maksimum 10 tahun. Dan disyorkan 10 tahun. Lepas tuh, kalu nak pindah keje, memang pengalaman dah cukup.

10 tahun?? Fuh.. lama tuh. Dan dlm tempoh 10 tahun tuh, baru jadik team leader( projek leader ). 5 tahun keje, baru leh jadik pembantu team leader. So, logik la kene keje minimum 5 tahun baru berenti.

Kalau keje kat syarikat US, agak2 dlm tempoh 10 tahun tuh, apa agaknye jawatan leh pegang?

[Jagermeist_]

budaya keje jepun dengan US berbeza dari segi mana?

Work Smart - Party Hard = US

Work Hard - No Party = Jepun

[iostream]

Work Smart - Party Hard = US

Work Hard - No Party = Jepun

---Adakah tuan maksudkan orang Jepun (mungkin juga Asia) workaholic?

[Jagermeist_]

---Adakah tuan maksudkan orang Jepun (mungkin juga Asia) workaholic?

Workaholic, perfectionist etc.
Not all Asians, mostly Koreans and Japanese.
That's their culture, perfectionism.
Be that in their own country or while abroad,majority of them.

[obelicks]

cakap pasal jepun teringat aku..

Kat jepun takda istilat parmanent
kalau parmanent tuh maknanya dia akan berkerja ngan company tu sampai mati..

[muffinxe]

cakap pasal jepun teringat aku..

Kat jepun takda istilat parmanent
kalau parmanent tuh maknanya dia akan berkerja ngan company tu sampai mati..

aku rasa kalau keje yang takda istilah permanent ni hanya melayu yang kerja dengan jepun, mmg tak dinafikan jepun adalah bangsa yang bekerja keras, selalunya jepun ni akan keje dalam satu company sampai mati, tua atau dipecat

kalau bos kata"ashita kara konakutemo ii"..maknanya freeta la tuh.. ,

p/s aku sokong cuma 3 tahun aja duduk dalam satu IT company ni, sbb dalam masa 3 tahun ni kita sendiri tahu sejauh mana utk 10 tahun akan datang,

[obelicks]

takda la culture depa memang camtu..

tapi nih bukan masalah kerja tapi more on polisi ketetapan etc..
payah dalam polisi bila nak determine pekerja tetap & kontrak.. kalau takda status pekerja tetap..
so kena tahu temph kontrak.. kalau setahun tiga tahun 20 tahun pekerja kontrak kena buh polisi berlainan meh...
kalu malaysia tetap & kotrak jelas

[ptit]

nokotta..nokotta...hmmm change window aku 3 tahun....baru bleh pindah ke team lain...time window open tu la bleh bargain ngn boss...time tu la $$ n power amat diutamakan...tp dlm kepala ni dah set next station is SAP...tak kisah la kena belajar dari mula...

[amril_2004]

nak kongsi gak nie... aku baru jumpe bekas bos aku... dia kata keje 2thn pindah genap 10thn gaji dah 10k... tap xtau ler sejauh mane kebenarannye...

[Jagermeist_]

nak kongsi gak nie... aku baru jumpe bekas bos aku... dia kata keje 2thn pindah genap 10thn gaji dah 10k... tap xtau ler sejauh mane kebenarannye...

Lambat tuh,patut tanya Shima,Head of Infosec at Al-Rahji Bank,15 yr kat Maybank salary RM6-7K.
Pindah ke Ah Rajhi, RM22 k ++.

[rizal]

nak kongsi gak nie... aku baru jumpe bekas bos aku... dia kata keje 2thn pindah genap 10thn gaji dah 10k... tap xtau ler sejauh mane kebenarannye...

Tang gaji ni maybe its applicable to certain industry + certain skills . Kalau kena tempat, with the right skill (I am talking about IT industry Malaysia la) nak cecah 10k < 5 years experience pun boleh.

[muffinxe]

Tang gaji ni maybe its applicable to certain industry + certain skills . Kalau kena tempat, with the right skill (I am talking about IT industry Malaysia la) nak cecah 10k < 5 years experience pun boleh.

yang ni aku setuju, budak grad 2 tahun pun dah cicah gaji rm5-6k, kalau kena pada tempatnya cepat naik

[obelicks]

Tang gaji ni maybe its applicable to certain industry + certain skills . Kalau kena tempat, with the right skill (I am talking about IT industry Malaysia la) nak cecah 10k < 5 years experience pun boleh.

yupe pindah kawasan pindah negara
so leh naik ganda2..

[kaklie78]

company lama aku ramai je staff IT exp 7 8 tahun gaji memasing 8-9k

tapi kerja ....heheh sandard la serupa gaji la

[hamdi]

Utk saya, ada 2 fasa.

Fasa 1, masa mula2 grad dulu, keutamaan ialah nak ilmu dan pengalaman. Walaupun gaji kecik dan dah berkahwin. Sabar aje le masa kena sindir dgn abang ipar. Selagi boleh dpt ilmu dan experience kat company tu, saya kekal. Tak kira berapa tahun sekali pun. Utk saya, saya dpt belajar selama 5 tahun 1 bulan sebelum company pertama lingkup.

Fasa 2, apabila dah ada bbrp kerat ilmu dan pengalaman yg berguna, keutamaan ialah nak contribute kpd company, selain masih nak ilmu dan pengalaman. Cthnya kat company sekarang ni, project track & trace bernilai belasan juta yg menggunakan sap, menghadapi pelbagai masalah dan rintangan sehingga nampak macam nak karam. Tatkala sap consultant hanya berpeluk tubuh, berkeras dgn scope mereka dan tak mahu bantu lebih lagi, malahan menepis secara berterusan utk mengurangkan scope mereka, team saya contribute dgn besarnya kpd company dgn mengambil semua baki scope yg takde orang nak. Kerja mengambil scope yg terbiar ini tak glamour, tapi sebenarnya byk dpt kita pelajari dan yg penting utk saya, kita contribute kpd company. Di situ timbulnya kepuasan kerja utk saya. Saya bernasib baik kpd bos saya sedar bhw tanpa team ini, project tu gagal sebenarnya. So, ada le penghargaan dan imbuhan, abang ipar pun dah tak sindir dah

Tapi, sekarang ni, saya dah ada bos baru dan structure baru yg membuatkan saya tak dpt nak contribute lagi kpd company walaupun potensi utk saya contribute tu sangat banyak sebenarnya. So, masa utk pindah keje...

Point saya, kerja la kat company tu selagi matlamat kita masih boleh diperolehi, tak perlu ikut jumlah tahun. Dan setiap orang bebas memilih matlamat masing2. JMHO.

[obelicks]

depends pada personal career growth..
target apa.. nak duit ke nak apa.. dan of course pandai carik peluang..

[akram]

aku suka topic ni, it's make me think about my personal career growth. banyak pendapat yang bagus2 untuk diterima pakai. Aku rasa, 2-3 years la paling lama nak stay kalau kita nak percepatkan salary growth, hehe. Ye la, lompat2 company ni la cara cepat nak upkan market value kita, tapi make sure la dengan cara yang betul. Setiap kali lompat keje baru, mesti la expected salary tu naik beberapa % dari gaji sekarang. Hmm, aku pun dah terpk skang ni for my career path la, ingat nak test market value skang ni brape bleh pi.